I think what we’re seeing here isnt Valve messing up but rather the middle east conflict expanded to cyberspace and spilling over to impact civilians. Look at the timing and affected countries. China isnt also exactly known for free internet.

WebRTC works as fallback. WebRTC is encrypted and cant be used for much else.

STUN in the otherhand is unencrypted and the protocol itself can be used for DDoS reflection/amplification. I would not be surprised if this is somehow weaponized and/or blocked/analyzed in real time that then breaks the connectivity.

I know I'm just preaching to the choir here but my favourite thing about open source/published source libraries/applications is discussions on bug reports/pr's like this.

It's just something so heartwarming of multiple people coming together to describe their symptoms, workarounds and theories of what could be causing it.

Title does not match GitHub issue: "Major P2P issues in Israel and possibly other middle east countries"

Wild hypothesising here on HN but if you read to the end of the GH issue users have been reporting that STUN has been failing (i.e. no P2P link establishment, fallback to high-latency relay servers.) Multiple users have been able to work around the issue by manually substituting older Valve WebRTC dlls. I'd love to read a postmortem from the Valve devs.

> in Israel and possibly other middle east countries

Why did you leave this part of title out? For clicks?

What an absolute dud of a submission, I can't believe this got so many upvotes. I guess people saw "Valve" in the title and figured it must be important, even though the content of the issue doesn't even line up with the title.

this looks like not Valve issue. the problems noted seem to indicate only countries which very aggressivly scan and filter connections. P2p is very sensitive to this.

SDR is a relay network, and encrypted, so like onionrouting etc.

its well known malicious actors can abuse it by publishing a p2p game and running coms over SDR via that game...

you can imagine that people want to inspect this traffic in these regions..

The rabbit hole started as a major P2P issue in Israel and possibly other middle east countries and further investigations revealed it seems to be a worldwide problem.

The title make it seems like it's broken everywhere...

Mmm im in China and played a third party game through steams Spacewar dev game (enabling steam p2p i think) like 3 weeks ago and it worked fine.

The age of people all across the world being able to just connect to each other other the internet is coming to an end. I wish the internet was still a business backend and hobbyist playground but I'm not sure it ever was just that.

Valve fascinates me because the devs there occasionally seem to be simply the best on earth in a given field, but despite that, bizarre bugs will persist for a long time. My favorite was how steam in home streaming from a PC to a steam deck wouldn't work if the steam deck had an Ethernet and wifi connection - one of the connections had to be disabled or the stream would always crash.

Maybe they need a few average devs there to spend time sweeping up behind the paragons that are pushing the envelope into these features existing at all.

interesting, people speculated that Street Fighter6 went from P2P to relay a few months ago on one of the updates. never wouldve thought it would be actually a valve issue

Is this a bug on Valve? Or is it simply a case of "My ISP is fucking with my internet traffic and they won't admit it please help me"

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@dang, title should be updated:

`Major P2P issues in Israel and possibly other middle east countries`

Hm, I have always wanted to use this to play couch co-op remotely but is this even the same "service" that provides that?

Looks like they tracked it to a steam update in March, and there's a workaround for at lest 3 games that involves all players copying steamwebrtc.dll to the game's ./binaries folder.

Paging Fletcher Dunn

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I blame Bricks and Minifigs

As SteamOS user for years i can say "typical Valve"

My unpopular opinion: Valve is basically a parasite or a landlord. They've been so successful it's hard to imagine a world without them, and they say "you gotta give the parasite its due" and we believe them and comply.

It's been kept around because they treat their customers ok, but they absolutely exsanguinate their developers.

And their engineering culture is... odd. They hire senior people and then let them all fuck sound aimlessly. Their APIs are terrible, their infrastructure is all over the place, they still have patch Tuesdays. But because they are the landlord that owns every house in town, what are you going to do, not pay rent?

Gabe is out there cruising the world in a billion dollar yacht, eating thousand dollar meals. All that came off the backs of developers who actually make the games.