229 points by matt_d 4 days ago | 93 comments | View on ycombinator
nojs 3 days ago |
lukax 3 days ago |
E.g. for editing files with Claude models you should use Edit(file_path, old_string, new_string, replace_all) but with GPT models you should use apply_patch_call(patch) (where patch is a custom patch string with custom grammar).
It appears newer models are better at narive harness tool calls and worse at custom tools that look similar to default tools.
https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2026/7/4/better-models-worse-tools/
corv 3 days ago |
Having a coding harness is critical but the differences between them are overstated.
Personally, I’ve replaced OpenCode with a thin wrapper around Pydantic-AI as the pythonic analogue to Pi-Agent for headless use via Hermes
They’d all do the job - I just prefer to compartmentalize for access control.
Keeping the harness’ surface area tiny had the added benefit of preserving my understanding and being able to adapt it to my preferred workflow effortlessly
Supermancho 3 days ago |
Optimal harnesses use concurrent execution + subagents and are not stuck on one model. Cost and performance are impacted GREATLY by these tactics, regardless of the native agent context (instruction). This kind of single-harness analysis is shallow and misleading, although the finding that "Provider-specific optimization does not guarantee the best pairing" is probably correct, depending on how you measure.
It is a starting point.
Otterly99 3 days ago |
I wonder if the same is true for the smaller models in the 9-32B range? I would expect that these models need more steering, but again I was not expecting this result either.
x312 3 days ago |
In my experience if you're using OpenAI/Claude models and paying API costs, almost every other harness beats Claude Code/Codex in cost.
Yashjain413 3 days ago |
With coding agents, what I’ve noticed is that a simple task can often be handled with a fairly simple harness. But the hidden cost is really around context. One of the more interesting things I’ve seen is that two different harnesses can make a similar number of model calls while consuming a very different amount of context.
I think I recently came across a paper comparing Claude Code and Pi that touched on this. More context, more tooling, focused context, simpler loops, all of these can lead to very different costs and performance, even when the number of model calls looks similar.
spike021 3 days ago |
Do harnesses and therefore sending the queries directly to the LLM providers have caching and other benefits that OpenRouter does not provide? Would I get any of those benefits if I simply proxied any requests to the major providers' harnesses through OpenRouter? Or only if the requests go straight from the harness to the provider's API?
glub 1 day ago |
I want one place where I define project prompt, one place where I define project agents, MCPs, config. And all of this immediately rules out any lab-provided harness.
vb-8448 3 days ago |
kittikitti 3 days ago |
vintagedave 3 days ago |
This is interesting. We built our own harness (CodeBot, an agent for Delphi) and it currently uses OpenAI models; we tuned it for specific behaviours and patterns and I find its behaviour better than Codex. Same models underneath.
ed_mercer 3 days ago |
epolanski 3 days ago |
And they also tune the inference of the models behind it.
You're using different tooling every day. Hard to benchmark.
grigio 3 days ago |
lexicalmathical 3 days ago |
snehesht 3 days ago |
nichyjt 3 days ago |
mikert89 3 days ago |
robinpie 3 days ago |
sn0n 3 days ago |
jswelker 3 days ago |
"Why pay the waste disposal tax? Dumping into the ocean is free!"
Pi actively omits any sort of guardrails and sandboxing in the name of speed and simplicity, so it is not shocking that it is faster and simpler.
Doubling the cost of something in the name of vague security is standard operating procedure for big enterprises, maybe even quite cheap.
ekorondy 2 days ago |
itsmeduncan 3 days ago |
appbeforelunch 3 days ago |
shivrajnag 3 days ago |
ethanprk 3 days ago |
nirmeetimthebes 3 days ago |
pyfd 3 days ago |
I also wish the discussion around Pi did not always use cost/token count as the metric. It's amazingly token efficient, but how does it stack up again opencode and others if you don't care about token count?
My experience is that the harness is mainly polish preventing failed tool calls, bad edits, stuff like that, but doesn't make much difference to the overall "intelligence". But that opencode seems slightly more robust against stupid errors than out of the box Pi due to the additional context it forces through every thread.