569 points by joeriddles 2 days ago | 364 comments | View on ycombinator
semiquaver 1 day ago |
S-E-P 2 days ago |
If you can't spend the time to write it, why should anyone read it?
Everything I post is from my own finger tips, only to get a reply from someone using a bot. I'm tired.
thombles 2 days ago |
in_absentia 1 day ago |
In other words, you need to read a style manual or two, and you need to read and have opinions about other people's work. You must have taste. Otherwise, you can't really distinguish between good and bad advice. You'll anchor to the suggestions made by the LLM and it will turn your writing into LLMese. I guess that works - it sure gets clicks on HN - but it won't be your voice anymore.
There's still value in getting a second pair of eyes on what you write. But here's another cool trick that gives you a similar benefit: just let it stew. Go for a walk, grab a lunch. Re-read what you wrote. You'll be surprised.
nirava 1 day ago |
ashton314 1 day ago |
Step two: close the LLM
Step three: pick up a pen and write
Writing with LLMs is a great way to make yourself stupid: https://lambdaland.org/posts/2026-08-07-ai-writing-stupid/
I'm glad the OP acknowledges that you have to have to do the writing yourself—though they say this more as a means to avoid getting pegged as having used an LLM, whereas I see the problem as being cognitive surrender.
Eddy_Viscosity2 1 day ago |
The best advice for writing for other humans is: don't use LLMs.
If you're writing for machines, liking coding, then fine go for it. If you're writing for processes with formal highly structured content like manuals, specifications, form content, procedures, information, that sort of thing, then also ok to use LLMS. But if you're writing for a human mind to ingest and extract meaning from, then LLMs are poison.
Retr0id 1 day ago |
LLMs have absolutely terrible taste when it comes to writing. I don't find their feedback useful at all, beyond trivial spelling/grammar mistakes, which you don't really need an LLM for in the first place.
Proofreading is all you need.
Edit: I do sometimes ask an LLM for a fact-check, though.
pmg101 1 day ago |
He also uses rule of three and the phrase "load-bearing", just for fun, which elicited a wry smile from me.
Thanks OP for a pleasant start to my day!
tolerance about 3 hours ago |
abc3354 2 days ago |
Does anyone know about "Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace" ? Seems like an interesting book
asveikau about 17 hours ago |
This sentence specifically seems like an LLM. It's hard to quantify that. They just take that sort of tone when they're needlessly summarizing what they already told you. "This thing contrastive thing remains important, but we got XYZ benefit."
r0ze-at-hn 1 day ago |
Paying close attention to posts written by folks who are not using LLM's the comments here regularly complain (sometimes extensively) about the writing quality. Doesn't matter what people are saying or suggesting about avoiding LLM writing, the real lesson I am seeing is either to naturally be gifted at writing or somehow figure out how to have LLM's help with your writing. "Rule Number One: You may not use a single word an LLM suggests to you." isn't helpful for probably the majority.
le-mark 1 day ago |
drdaeman about 13 hours ago |
I think there's a use case where this rule can be ignored. Sometimes I ask LLM to help me pick a single word or short phrase in some language, that has specific meaning, and connotations. Or doesn't carry some connotations or associations. Especially when I have an idiom from some language in mind, but I'm writing in some other language and my brain struggles to find a good replacement.
LLMs are super handy as fancy vibe-based dictionary search engines. They're all about words that go with other words, so when I'm struggling for a good term, I see no harm in asking and picking an option that I feel closest to what I want to express. My choice, my voice, just a very fancy thesaurus machine.
thunfischtoast 1 day ago |
awithrow 2 days ago |
another iteresting thing models can do is to highlight and notice themes and motifs in a piece. I find that helpful when thinking about a piece of work. Might be obvious ones, sometimes it can be subtle themes. Good for stirring your own brain.
vidarh 1 day ago |
I really hope this was intentional.
Semiapies 1 day ago |
crossroadsguy about 15 hours ago |
It's not even the suggestions in isolation, but it tries to convince you that your writing is stellar and then slips in a word or two, and you accept it because otherwise you'd be skipping greatness. I guess in some way one has to have a bit of hubris about one's writing to tell the model to f off.
And OP, assuming this, from your prompt, is your language:
> "… First get the bones up…"
Congratulations, you are now doing LLM-speak :-)
felipeerias 2 days ago |
- Establish a single thesis an external reviewer could recover from the diff.
- Unify vocabulary across code, comments, tests, and commit message.
- Use the same vocabulary consistently to refer to the same concepts.
- Keep every hunk that serves the thesis; consider the removal or deferral of the rest.
- Introduce abstractions at the point of need.
- Align tests to narrate the same story as the implementation.
- Reconcile the commit message and the diff.
- Order changes expositorily, not chronologically.
- Explain what the change does and why. Do not explain the details of the development process.
- Prefer to edit subtractively.
- Recompile and run all relevant tests after edits.
- Iterate.
bzmrgonz about 24 hours ago |
sixtyj 2 days ago |
This is what you need to know. Seriously, after 25 years in news (writing), you realize that you need “second eyes”, not the first hands.
mjmvisser 1 day ago |
So far so good…
“Those rethinks are load-bearing parts of your voice.”
Oops.
seanmcdirmid 1 day ago |
undefined 1 day ago |
brlewis 1 day ago |
gyulai about 11 hours ago |
For objective/factual writing, asking for a fact check is a widely-used practice. And there's a useful counterpart for writing subjective things and opinionated hot takes, namely to ask the LLM: “Anticipate how this might be misunderstood in ways that might cause offence or trigger people.” Sometimes, you might want to say something that will cause offence, and there might be no way around it. In this case, making a conscious choice to let that be might be the right thing to do. But I find it surprising, how often an LLM will see an angle that I myself did not see, where something might cause offence in a way that I genuinely missed and genuinely want to fix. And then that gives me a chance to re-write before posting something.
devin about 20 hours ago |
Emitting words is not really what "writing" is.
https://twinada.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/708...
maurelius2 about 4 hours ago |
felipeerias 2 days ago |
This makes Rule 1 straightforward ("You may not use a single word an LLM suggests to you") and helps avoid the horrible feeling that the machine is taking over your personal voice.
vish045 about 9 hours ago |
mcapodici about 18 hours ago |
For docs I have used an LLM for the convenience of having them kept up to date.
brap about 5 hours ago |
This might work well for some tasks (coding), but for writing it will absolutely take reasonable text and turn it into a pile of incoherent garbage no human would ever write.
Maybe I’m the only one keeps trying this (more often than I’m willing to admit), but I suspect it’s a common cope engineers reach for when having to deal with the not-so-fun task of writing prose.
Yashjain413 1 day ago |
I have a specific ChatGPT chat that rewrites my posts really well every time; I usually just give it a rough draft and let it clean things up. But it was pretty interesting to realize how good these LLMs are at actually finding mistakes rather than just rewriting things. The point about not letting the model influence your voice was also very, very relevant.
jjhfarmer 1 day ago |
ramblurr 1 day ago |
> I conjured a bit of software to manage this for me[...]
I don't understand how the annotation application shown helps with the stated goal of preventing the model from praising you. What's the actual software assisted workflow?
undefined about 13 hours ago |
d4rkp4ttern 1 day ago |
Why is this?
Why couldn’t whatever went into post-training these voice models be applied to the text-gen models to get rid of AI smells?
Could we set up a pipeline that leverages the voice models to clean up text that reeks of AI ?
trane_project 2 days ago |
apparent about 23 hours ago |
foobarbecue about 9 hours ago |
I'll get my writing tips somewhere else.
8bitsrule 1 day ago |
OTOH, an AI could not have qualified as such a student. But even if it did, before we began I would certainly bargain for considerably more than work-study tutoring paid.
Luucas40 1 day ago |
For anything beyond "good", we're still on our own and I love that for us.
AyanamiKaine 1 day ago |
mrieck 1 day ago |
Ok - but that's not very useful.
mcv 1 day ago |
And yet, I'm stuck having to write an important message to someone that has real stakes riding on it, so I use Claude to refine it, and I see myself succumbing to Claude's pressure to use its words instead of my own. I hate it, but my words aren't very good.
And finally Claude proclaims the message perfect and I let my wife take a look at it, and she rejects the entire thing, restoring some semblance of sanity again.
virgilp 1 day ago |
---
and then
> Those rethinks are load-bearing parts of your voice. Readers won’t put their fingers on what’s wrong, but they’ll sense that you’ve become artificially-flavored.
---
Are they wrong in the first paragraph? Or are they simply not following the advice they dispense to others?
liqiug 1 day ago |
tripvexa 1 day ago |
brunoarine about 18 hours ago |
Oh, we do. We can also detect hackeneyed, LLM-made sentences where just one word had been replaced. "That's where it's going to f*** you".
RajT88 1 day ago |
Using adversarial models to evolve ideas. I have a whole novel of material, and the feedback has indeed been useful. But the actual novel? Not even AI models like their own writing once you give the simple prompt of "account for model sycophancy".
The resulting structure and plot beats are good with AI as copy editor. Only the least discerning reader might not care or notice the actual non-human writing. And hey - maybe those are your readers. Probably not.
Can we all appreciate for a moment the sci-fi dystopia which snuck up on us all? I just used to phrase: " non-human writing". 50 years ago, that would send a chill up your spine.
delis-thumbs-7e 1 day ago |
Today even if you don’t use LLM’s following certain formal style you end up sounding like ad copy or wannabe Atlantic -hack. The. You might read some kid on Tumblr writing beautiful prose with typos and errors and all.
First of all you should have something to say. I write a blog just to make tutorials for myself on stuff I need to regularly check out. I don’t really care if anyone reads it. I don’t use LLM to make the posts since, well, pride, but also because I learn better when I need to write the stuff down and check my facts several times. I don’t much care if I make a typo or grammar error here and there. If I want to write it as Jeeves from Wodehouse book, fuck it, I will.
If you have a story you have something to write about. It doesn’t have to be fiction, it can be a story on how multicast works. And it needs to be your story. Then the words come by themselves and writing is relatively easy. To have a story you have to live and think. LLM’s don’t help in that.
undefined 1 day ago |
threetonesun about 22 hours ago |
undefined 2 days ago |
fnoef 1 day ago |
Don’t
politician about 15 hours ago |
striker44 about 16 hours ago |
jamiejquinn 2 days ago |
Loved the (possibly not deliberately ironic) use of the LLM'S favourite analogy, load-bearing.
Nice wee article though. I particularly agree with "Don’t take all of the model’s copyediting advice." I've been using LLMs to review teaching material and often it just doesn't get the point of teaching. It's good for prompting reflection on your writing but it's still an idiot savant.
blinkbat about 20 hours ago |
dyauspitr about 21 hours ago |
4lx87 1 day ago |
globular-toast 1 day ago |
Writing is something we really, really need to learn from other people, because it's with people we are trying to communicate. There should be no need for "writing with an LLM". None at all. If what you are writing is important, ask a friend to proof read it. If you can't write, learn.
VCFundedGenYer 1 day ago |
Don't.
SupremumLimit 2 days ago |
"Those rethinks are load-bearing parts of your voice. Readers won’t put their fingers on what’s wrong, but they’ll sense that you’ve become artificially-flavored."
The metaphor at the start is AI-like weirdness too: "without pasteurizing and jacking it with corn syrup." Pasteurising is good, corn syrup is bad - what the heck am I supposed to make of it? It's nonsense.
It may even have been handwritten by the author, but it's slop nonetheless.
You may be telling yourself that you're disciplined and you're just using the LLMs for review. But while you're reading their output, the slop makes its way directly into your brain anyway - and then it drips out into your writing.
pama 1 day ago |
nicebyte about 18 hours ago |
Simply don't.
avazhi 2 days ago |
TLDR: Don’t.
SamaLie7350 about 21 hours ago |
jennifer_ilands 1 day ago |
swapoer 1 day ago |
bumjin 1 day ago |
what about 14 hours ago |
weezing 1 day ago |
ACV001 1 day ago |
arcwhite 1 day ago |
xianshou 1 day ago |
It slows things down a bit, but in the best possible way. It has helped immensely to improve the depth of my understanding of the agent-generated code. When agents are doing everything its way too easy to “skim” diffs and not really absorb them.
I always prided myself on my technical writing, and commit messages and PRs were a great place to hone that skill. I found that I missed it and my work is better now I’ve reclaimed that part of my old job back.