143 points by jegp about 16 hours ago | 57 comments | View on ycombinator
D-Machine about 13 hours ago |
flopsamjetsam about 15 hours ago |
At least some journals have this as a stipulation e.g. https://www.nature.com/nature-portfolio/editorial-policies/r...
Particularly the "data availability" and "Availability and peer review of computer code and algorithm".
However, in my limited experience, of trying to reproduce certain scRNA-seq processing pipelines, in practice it's never available as just a Github link. I can understand that some/many researcher's code is not in good shape, so I think it'll be quite a stretch to have this available.
I do think it's laudable though, to try and make it available. It would certainly have been very useful for me in the past.
willtemperley about 15 hours ago |
Another problem with reproducibility is the openness of the underlying data. Many academics are terrified of giving away the golden goose and the software is often useless without the data.
However many scientists do work openly, e.g. The Journal of Open Source Software:
crustyoldhuman about 2 hours ago |
The point at the end "The scientific revolution succeeded because it insisted on transparency, reproducibility, and constant scrutiny." is a good one. But the real kicker that makes the situation so bleak is it's not the scientists who get to decide whether or not these things get applied to science or not, it's government policies and corporate interests.
random3 about 16 hours ago |
runningmike about 5 hours ago |
samayashar about 15 hours ago |
I am particularly fascinated by labs like DeepMind [https://deepmind.google/science/]. The recent advances in their frontier models that are able to predict diseases before they're diagnosed is incredible. This is what AI should be built for and actually do!
btrettel about 5 hours ago |
throwaway27448 about 15 hours ago |
enbugger about 9 hours ago |
I like how this is dropped as a fact. Dare to explain why though? Especially vs Docker. NixOS is not even standardized. No guarantees it will not be superseded by some descedant or eg. Guix in a near decade.
txrx0000 about 10 hours ago |
flimflamm about 8 hours ago |
Thus there is indeed a difference in the monetary intensives.
Muhammad523 about 10 hours ago |
analog31 about 5 hours ago |
I refer to what I think the author is asking for, as "push button reproducibility," i.e., the idea that the results will reproduce themselves at the push of a button, anywhere, at any time in the future. I have a couple of misgivings about this.
First, the whole idea of "open" research predates computer technology. Forcing science to keep up with the latest ideas in software distribution is too much of a burden, when science is already too risky and slow. I had the odd privilege of learning the scientific method from my mom, before there was widespread access to computers. Her version was that a study should be reproducible by a reasonably skilled person. This is a greatly relaxed standard, but is realistic for a discipline that spans decades if not centuries.
I supplied all of the data and code for my thesis research (and a sufficient number of mechanical and electrical drawings). But nobody has Turbo Pascal today, and some of the commercial instruments such as specialized lasers were already obsolete by the time I finished. Also, the experiment was dangerous, and might not pass safety review today. It required about $500k of equipment and a dedicated lab.
Today I have the luxury of saying that if my code fails upon loading a new version of a dependency, the person who discovers that failure is probably skilled enough to fix it, and my work rarely hinges on the idiosyncracies of dependency versions. If it goes into a product, they'll totally rewrite it anyway.
Second, science is still at its core an experimental discipline. Even in physics, there are more experimentalists than theoreticians. Reproducibility means roll up your shirt sleeves and head for the lab. To this day, some processes have not been mechanized, and you still need to spend years developing "lab hands" which not all people succeed at.
I think there's a clue in the fact that the social and medical sciences seem to be the most deeply embroiled in the reproducibility crisis. It's because the quality of results depends on the the quality of measurements, and it's just harder when dealing with living subjects or one-of-a-kind specimens (such as the earth's climate). In fact, not much more than a century ago, it was believed that studying those things was beyond the reach of scientific methodology.
Third, we're not going to stop doing science in areas where it's hard, particularly in medicine, but we're also not going to staff up in areas such as software development, to make science work better. People are suffering from disease right now so there's always an urgency to finding cures, plus an obvious profit motive.
Disclosure: Experimental physicist, developing better measurement equipment.
5555watch about 4 hours ago |
Am I the only one that's tired of "my random shower thought turned into full article with AI" articles?
shevy-java about 8 hours ago |
But why does the public have to pay for e. g. Elsevier? We pay for research of scientists already via taxpayers money (at the least in a civilized country), then we have to pay again for a private entity. If science is really open then it also needs to require public publishing. Gangsters such as Elsevier and others should not be able to drain the public here. Taxpayers financing something should also require public access to findings, at all times. Instead, Elsevier, Springer etc... get more public money while keeping things private. That's the antithesis to science.
sarfaraznaushad about 13 hours ago |
marsven_422 about 13 hours ago |
jegp about 16 hours ago |
But until much of academia is burned to the ground, or until science can be properly separated from modern academia, this will never be so. The current academic incentives are all wrong: low-quality research is rewarded and results in publications, whereas high-quality research (that takes time, and usually reveals that most exciting publications depend on p-hacking or other highly data-dependent analyses and selective presentations) is not published or actively blocked during peer review.
So instead you get BS arguments about how data can't be released for various privacy concerns (when in reality the vast majority of most datasets are trivial to scrub of identifying factors, and even in more complex datasets where you need to consider k-anonymity, it is still trivial to release data that allows replication of core analyses), and academic science is increasingly irrelevant unless it is tied to tech and industry, where producing junk actually has real negative economic and personal consequences.
I don't know what world this article / post lives in, but it isn't the messy world of actual reality.